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- INTERVIEW, Page 20An Echo from America's Last Big War
-
-
- NGUYEN VAN THIEU, South Vietnam's former President, still
- believes the Hanoi regime will fall and that he will be able to
- go home again
-
- By WALTER ISAACSON and NGUYEN VAN THIEU
-
-
- Q. Now that the Soviets have quit propping up regimes in
- Europe and elsewhere, do you see change coming to Vietnam?
-
- A. My collaborators and informants in Vietnam tell me that
- even the rulers in Hanoi realize they must make dramatic
- reforms soon. They know that the political and economic
- discontent is serious, even within the armed forces, and also
- inside the party, where there is growing opposition to the Old
- Guard.
-
-
- Q. What are you doing to encourage this?
-
- A. For two years I have been traveling around the world to
- keep my fellow expatriates updated. We are also organizing to
- tell the people in Vietnam who want change that we are ready
- to support them from overseas, morally and financially.
-
-
- Q. But what makes you think you have any right to play a
- role in Vietnam's future?
-
- A. I do not seek any leadership position in the overseas
- community of Vietnamese refugees. And I would not seek to come
- back to Vietnam as the President if we were successful. I am
- old, too old to take power again. But I believe I can encourage
- the struggle of those who want democracy and freedom,
- especially for the younger generation, and after that I can use
- my experience to promote reconciliation and guard against the
- chance that we could lose our freedoms again.
-
-
- Q. Aren't you partly to blame for the animosity in Vietnam?
- What makes you think you could help with reconciliation?
-
- A. There have to be some leaders on the people's side of the
- struggle who will seek to calm down the rage and tell people
- not to take revenge against the communists. I do not advocate
- annihilation of the Communist Party. I do not advocate making
- them go into exile like we had to do.
-
-
- Q. Who is pushing for reform?
-
- A. Many new political organizations are being formed in
- Vietnam -- I have been in contact with some of them -- and they
- include religious groups, student groups, the middle-class
- Catholics and even former members of the National Liberation
- Front. They include anyone who wants to join together to rise
- up against the Hanoi authorities.
-
-
- Q. The National Liberation Front? That was the Hanoi-backed
- communist movement in South Vietnam that your government
- fought. Are you saying they have joined with your supporters?
-
- A. Many former N.L.F. leaders in the south would be willing
- to join us. They were betrayed by the North Vietnamese leaders
- in 1975 [when Hanoi's troops took over Saigon]. They realize
- the time has come to work with the people to struggle against
- those who retained power in Hanoi.
-
-
- Q. Does the Hanoi government take this resistance seriously?
-
- A. Yes. In fact, Hanoi is no longer confident that it can
- trust its security forces. Not long ago, the Hanoi leaders
- created a special regiment from people very loyal to them and
- sent it down to Saigon. That is because they realized that if
- the people in the south rose up, the regular security forces
- and even the military there might not be on the government's
- side, just like in Romania.
-
-
- Q. Do you think the Communist Party in Hanoi might agree to
- real reforms?
-
- A. I think that the next session of the Communist Party
- Congress, scheduled for April, will bring change. We know that
- there are deep divisions, and if the younger reform faction
- fails -- I don't believe it will -- then there would be an open
- party quarrel. Most of the army commanders and most of the
- province leaders are with the reform faction.
-
- The Communist Party in Vietnam is like a big tree. But the
- roots are loose, and the trunk is hollow. There are people
- within the party who realize that the challenge is not how to
- maintain the tree, but how to make it fall in a way that will
- cause the least damage.
-
-
- Q. Do you still see a difference between north and south in
- Vietnam?
-
- A. In any country, even the U.S., there is some difference
- between north and south, or east and west. But it is not so
- serious. The resistance to Hanoi is greater in the south, but
- the people in the north are becoming more aggressive. You have
- to realize that the hatred of the Communist Party has been
- growing in the north for 45 years; in the south it has only
- been 15 years.
-
-
- Q. So you don't think that Vietnam might be divided again,
- do you?
-
- A. No, absolutely not. Vietnam must definitely be one nation
- from north to south. The decision to divide Vietnam did not
- come from the people, it always came from the foreign
- colonizers, and from the communists in 1954.
-
-
- Q. Why then did you fight so hard, and enlist the U.S., to
- keep South Vietnam sovereign?
-
- A. We fought because we were faced with an invasion from
- North Vietnam. It was an invasion pushed by the Chinese and the
- Soviets, who wanted to control Indochina. We resisted. And the
- U.S. troops came to Vietnam to defend freedom and preserve
- stability for the whole of Southeast Asia.
-
-
- Q. You say that you want a multiparty democracy. But Vietnam
- does not have a tradition of democracy and did not when you
- were in power.
-
- A. That is not true. Vietnam has had a strong democratic
- tradition for centuries. No single king or emperor has ever
- been feudal. "The order of the king must stop at the village
- gates," is an old Vietnamese saying. That represents a strong
- democratic tendency at the grass-roots level. Under my regime,
- even in wartime, we applied democracy in a Western style by
- having not only an elected national assembly and provincial
- councils but also at the hamlet and village level.
-
-
- Q. Do you foresee a renewed war?
-
- A. It depends on Hanoi. I do not advocate any war, any civil
- war. We do not want any more killing or revenge. If the Hanoi
- government agrees to carry out radical change in a timely
- fashion -- maybe over a year or two -- then it will all be
- smooth. We could go to a multiparty system and elect a new
- government without bloodshed. There could be national
- reconciliation.
-
-
- Q. And if Hanoi doesn't agree to change?
-
- A. If they continue like this, there is no doubt that they
- will face a struggle. If they use force like in a Tiananmen
- Square, then certainly blood will be answered by blood. Whether
- there is a civil war depends on how stubborn and tricky the
- Hanoi government will be. At the moment they are playing
- tricks, creating false political parties so they can say that
- there is democracy.
-
-
- Q. Do you think Hanoi's relations with China will improve?
-
- A. Yes, the Chinese might support the Hanoi leaders in order
- to lure them away from Moscow. The Chinese may not want too
- much reform because they fear a contamination of China through
- their underbelly. On their side, the Hanoi rulers feel
- isolated, and they need to be protected like a chick under the
- wing of a hen. But the Chinese, they do not forget easily. They
- will remember how the Vietnamese communists betrayed them in
- 1979. Among the communist regimes in the world, the Hanoi one
- is the trickiest. They can deceive even the Chinese communists.
- So the Beijing-Hanoi relationship might get better, but with
- suspicion. It could be a game of dupery, with neither side
- trusting the other.
-
-
- Q. Isn't it about time that the U.S. opened diplomatic
- relations with Vietnam?
-
- A. No. As long as the current people in Hanoi continue their
- dictatorial system, you should not encourage them to strangle
- the people of Vietnam any more. Certainly the U.S. has some
- interests -- geopolitical and strategic -- in Vietnam. You have
- a need to be present in that area to achieve stability and
- economic development. But that can only occur when there is no
- longer a communist and dictatorial government in Vietnam.
-
-
- Q. But it must be obvious to you that the Bush
- Administration is about to establish closer economic ties to
- Hanoi?
-
- A. I hope the Americans will not be lured in. That would be
- yet another failure: they would be condemned for encouraging
- the communist dictatorship to last forever and to strangle the
- people forever.
-
-
- Q. What should the Americans do?
-
- A. I don't ask them to make another war. But Vietnam needs
- Western economic help. That gives the U.S. great leverage. They
- should agree to end their embargo only in return for political
- and economic reforms in Vietnam. Let the economic ties go step
- by step.
-
-
- Q. Why do you think the climate is ripe for change these
- days?
-
- A. The U.S. has the chance to work with the Soviets, the
- Chinese, the French and even the Japanese to say that all
- economic dealings with Vietnam should be curtailed until there
- is change. What are you waiting for?
-
-
- Q. Do you think you will be back home soon?
-
- A. I think so. I hope so. It should take four or five years
- if the change comes peacefully. And then we could all go back.
- Like after a hurricane, we could all go back and rebuild.
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